COURT: Smith Germond (part 2 of 3); Lansingburgh, Rensselaer co., NY 1841 surname: Germond, Bloom, Mott, Hall, Tracy, Spencer, Doolittle, Pierson, Trowbridge, Leavens, Cushman, Ives, Chichester, Barber, Hatch, Dewolf, Woodworth, Gaston, Fake, Storm, Bryan, Gardner, Robbins, Warren, Bachus, Huddleston, Chatfield, Brinsmade, Heartt, Lohnes, Smith, Davis, Ketchum, Allen, Mctier, Matthews, Barker, Niles, Viele, Brownell, Wright, Bull, Perry, Slocum, Ryan, Grant, Lester, Coffin, Walbridge, Vail, Mosher, Filkins, Reed, Knickerbacker, Fowler, Long, submitted by Gayle Hendren (gr3808 at aol.com) ************************************************ Copyright. All rights reserved. http://www.usgwarchives.org/copyright.htm http://www.usgwarchives.org/ny/nyfiles.htm Submitted Date: October 18, 2005 This file has been created by a form at http://www.genrecords.org/nyfiles/ File size: 206.7 Kb ************************************************ Source: Copy Of Original Document Written: 1841 Rensselaer County Surrogates Court In the matter of proving The Will and Testament of Smith Germond deceased Rensselaer County ss. James M. Hatch called by those contesting will. Sworn says deponent is an attorney residing in Utica – knows Dr. Trowbridge went once to Bridgewater in company with Mr. Hall to see Dr. Trowbridge at his office on the 26th Dec. last – explained to him the object of them coming to see him - that deponent wanted to converse with him in relation to the execution of the will by Mr. Germond and his state of mind when it was made. Dr. Trowbridge stated that he made a memorandum the second or third day after he was at testators – first of testator’s property describing first the real estate and then the personal carrying out the estimated value that he footed(?) that then made a list of his debts stating the amount of each and footed that - then deducted that from the amount of each and footed that – then deducted that from the amount of his property and set it down and ascertained about the amount of property he had over and above his debts – then made a list of persons to whom he wished to make legacies and the amount of intended legacies to each heir - that list contained the names of all the persons to whom legacies were given in the will – Dr. Trowbridge said he had this memorandum in his possession several days before the will was drawn. Counsel contesting will asks deponent whether Dr. Trowbridge did not say that the will was drawn when testator was in another room. Question is objected to and testimony excluded. Counsel also asks whether Dr. Trowbridge said that will was drawn in exact conformity to the memorandum made by him. Objected to and testimony excluded. Counsel also asks what Dr. Trowbridge said about testator’s state of mind at the time he attended as physician. Objected to and testimony excluded. Deponent knows Stephen G. Mott has known him from 8 to 10 years. deponent understood him to be insolvent for the past three years. (Question objected to and testimony admitted) deponent understood John M. Mott to be insolvent at the time he left Oneida about two years since in the spring of 1839. (Question and Answer objected to) knows Samuel Hall and family. deponent knows of three children does not know of more. (Question and Answer objected to) deponent has lived in Utica since 1829. has known Mr. Hall during all this period. Hall has lived there since deponent first knew him. Cross Examination. Mr. Samuel Hall employed deponent to go and see Dr. Trowbridge – deponent is not an attorney in this business. Hall has not employed deponent since - in this business - deponent has been an attorney since July 1838 - deponent had been personally acquainted with the Motts five years. Germond Mott lived in the same city with deponent. John M. Mott lived at Paris Hall nine or ten miles from Utica – deponent was intimate with John M. Mott for years. had occasion to inquire about his ……situation in relation to some demand some person had desired deponent to collect – cannot recollect what demand or where – deponent inquired in order to collect the debt – of persons in Waterville where Mott last lived - cannot name the persons cannot state how much the demand was - thinks it was an account – don’t recollect what for – do not know where the owner of the account lived – deponent did not state to Dr. Trowbridge that he had come out there to collect a tax – nor for any purpose whatsoever other than to inquire about the will. Dr. Trowbridge himself introduced conversation about tax – Mr. Hall did not take deponent to let deponent hear from Dr. Trowbridge what his religious belief was – deponent does not recollect that Hall asked deponent to aid him in getting facts about Dr. Trowbridge’s religious belief - deponent did not converse with Dr. Trowbridge about his religious belief - there was no conversation between Dr. Trowbridge and any other person in deponent’s presence about his religious belief – deponent talked with two persons about his religious belief - with Mr. DeWolf and Mr. Woodworth – deponent commenced the conversation Mr. DeWolf – Mr. Hall commenced conversation with Mr. Woodworth. Mr. DeWolf is the only person deponent introduced to Mr. Hall to deponent’s recollection - deponent was not subpoenaed here. Deponent came in the cars - Hall has paid deponents passage down and has said something about paying deponents expenses - he said deponent must come down and said he expected to pay deponents expenses. Direct Examination resumed. Deponent objected to coming here but Mr. Doolittle and Denis(?) Mr. Halls counsel told deponent he would be wanted here and must come has known Dr. Trowbridge not more than two and a half years – has acted politically with him and that was the reason talk was had about political tax- Cross Examination resumed. Has known Dr. Trowbridge by reputation about ten years. Sworn and Subscribed before me Jany 19th 1841 James M. Hatch C. L. Tracy Surrogate of Renss County Rensselaer County Surrogates Court In the matter of proving the Last Will and Testament of Smith Germond deceased Rensselaer County ss. Stephen Gaston called by opponents to will being due sworn deposes and says – deponent knew testator has known him thirty odd years – lived about eighty rods from his house - saw him in the month of September – the third of September at his house - deponent went there in the morning to get some______ as deponent went in, testator went out and walked off___went down the steps into the____yard – he had his gown wrapped around him - as he went out John M. Mott followed him out and went into the yard and in a few minutes they came back and testator looked exhausted and as though he could not live but a few moments. Very weak. Mr. Mott had hold of him - testator fell back and said “I am going, I am going” - he seemed to lose all his life and energy – nothing more occurred except that he might have said “I am dying” - when he went out he______- deponent supposes he had one of his spasms when he returned – saw him frequently during his last sickness but did not converse with but twice – once on the 4th of July- once afterwards – cannot tell the time – as much as a month afterwards in second conversation he seemed to be so low that deponent could hardly understand what he said – gave no satisfaction to deponent – seemed to be anxious to talk but was to weak to allow deponent to take his ideas – has sometimes observed his manner and considered him a deranged man – he appeared in his eyes like a deranged man. Cross Examined. Deponent minuted the time he went to get the ____the next day after – because deponent then heard that testator had made his will – heard talk from most every body the next day that he had made his will - cannot state the man or the woman who told deponent – deponent’s family told him - deponent was told about 12 or 1 o’clock the next day in deponents house – minute was made after that – might have been a week after – minute was put in deponent’s day book. The minute was 3rd Sept. 1840 - no one asked deponent to make it cannot tell why he postponed making the entry a week – deponent did it for his own information – deponent expected a call to be witness - deponent has told some of his neighbors of his making the entry cannot tell how long after he made the entry that he told of it – thinks he told John Storm – cannot tell the persons whom he told of making the entry – on the 4th July testator was in the road between Col. Fakes store and testator’s house – deponent spoke to him about certain property which deponent had bought and requested him to remove an obstruction in going to the Springs and testator replied that deponent must move his fence and the obstructions in testators way - when Mott and testator returned into the house Mott, Mrs. Bloom and the hired girl were in the house – Dr. Trowbridge was about there at that time – testator went into the back yard. Sworn and Subscribed before me Jany 19th 1841 Stephen Gaston C. L. Tracy Surrogate of Renss. County County of Rensselaer Surrogates Court In the Matter of proving the last Will and Testament of Smith Germond deceased. Rensselaer County ss. John Storm called by opponents to will sworn says – resides in north part of town of Lansingburgh – deponent resided the last year and many years about a half a mile from testators house – has known testator between thirty and forty years – often saw him for some months before his death sometimes every day, sometimes twice or three times a week - after his return from springs saw testator- quite sick when he returned - after his return from springs saw him two or three times a week- was over there quite often – watched with him in month of August two or three times – perhaps not more than twice, is not certain - in the month of August saw symptoms of insanity about him in conversation and actions – when deponent was with him in the evening he would request deponent to go to some part of the room to see something which he pointed to and said he saw – when deponent went to that part of room and found nothing there and told testator so, ten testator would be peaceable a short time – sometimes he would direct deponent to fire place saying that he saw something there when there was nothing - sometimes he would call out the names of people not known to deponent – cannot now recollect the names – he called the names as though he supposed the persons to be in the room. He called his hogs frequently while in the room – he talked about his cattle and sheep and wanted persons present to go out and see about them – there were generally watchers present besides deponent – he wanted the watchers to go out to the cattle. Sometimes he would request them to go to one yard sometimes to another – deponent did not go into the yard to see – would just step out of the door to pacify him –testator would at these times when deponent watched with him wish deponent to take him home - being at a loss where he was – he appeared to think that he was away from home – in the first part of September one evening when Dr. Trowbridge was there deponent was at testators - cannot state the precise day – had not then heard about the will but it was after Dr. Trowbridge came down the second time – it was in first part of evening when deponent was there – Dr. Trowbridge was in the room part of the time – at this time deponent noticed the same that deponent noticed before that testators conversation was wild – deponent had known him intimately for years – at this time testator talked a great deal and did not talk as he used to talk - he appeared very uneasy -then in motion and grasping of his hands – his eyes appeared wild and did not look natural – if a person came near him he would take hold of him with one or both hands – sometimes with both – he would generally want to have hold of deponent with his hand or hands while deponent was there – deponent continued to watch with him afterwards a few times in September and October – deponent watched with him a dozen times in all – deponents opinion was that testator continued to grow more out of his mind as the disease progressed – his mind was worse at the latter part than along at commencement – he slept little the nights deponent was there - in August one night he slept as many as four hours -and then he told deponent that, that was as much as he usually slept – deponent was there one night when Dr. Trowbridge was called out of bed because testator was very much distressed and agitated – this was not a great while before the first time mentioned by deponent in the first part of September some four or five days – the watchers thought testator was dying – he appeared to have those spasms – he frequently had spasms during his sickness. Deponent is asked at the times he has mentioned what deponents opinion was as to testator’s state of mind. Question objected to and admitted. Deponent says that he was not in the right mind. Deponent considered his mind deranged from his behavior. During August and September deponent saw testator frequently in the day time – sometimes deponent would know him to speak some words very rational other words not so much – he would be wild immediately after and sometimes in the same conversation testator had with deponent in October – the sights which testator had at fireplace and other parts of room were in the room on the north side of hall – cannot recollect what room testator was in the first night deponent watched there in September – he was in the north room when Dr. Trowbridge was called up – cannot recollect in what room testator was the third time deponent watched with him – deponent cannot recollect whether the sights which testator had were the first or second watching or what watching it was – this pointing by testator to objects in different ____ of the room happened more than once as deponent thinks – does not recollect whether it happened in any other room than the north room – cannot recollect who was watching with deponent when he took off his clothes the first time – he took off his clothes as much as two or three times and deponent does not know but ____do not recollect whether he took off his clothes before his legs were bandaged – the first time he took off all his clothes and went to bed, then rose and was ____and then he took them off again – cannot state how long after he rose – deponent recollects that the tea kettle was _____in the kitchen after he rose – don’t recollect his eating that night – deponent cannot recollect the particulars of testators pulling his clothes off the second night – the first time he took off his clothes was in the room near the kitchen – the second in the north room – deponent has seen them off after that - he had his clothes off when in the hall – at this time he hollered murder – this was before the time that deponent mentioned seeing him when he had his senses – one night deponent staid there in the month of October – deponent was called up and found testator in the hall with a cloth round him his clothes off and he was hollering murder – this was before the rational spell before mentioned – at one time deponent heard testator speak about having made his will without providing for the burying ground and he said he wanted it preserved for the family and taken care of and wished deponent to take notice of it – this was about two weeks before his death – deponent has not said to any one within a fortnight that testator then said that he had left all something but that he had not left anything to John Bloom deponent has not said that testator then said “that he hoped there would be no difficulty about the will” – deponent was with testator but a short time as testator wished minister brought and deponent went after Mr. Singerling(?) – he lived but a short time after that – do not recollect seeing him after that – deponent is a farmer – deponent means to say that he was at testators as often as two or three time a week in the month of August and September – has been at testators in the day time when Dr. Trowbridge was there – cannot state anything that took place at such time – cannot state any conversation had with testator in the month of August in the day time or in the month of September – at one time deponents little boy was with deponent and they spoke to testator and testator mentioned that the boy had _____corn for him and he had not paid him – deponent said he need not trouble himself about that now – deponent does not recollect testators reply. This was in September or October – deponents sons bought a book of testators in August or September – it was in time of after feed(?) – deponent cannot state in what month deponent had conversation with testator about the horse because he was scant of feed – the purchase of horse was some length of time before his death – the grass had started up after mowing – mowed some time in August and they after feed had started up sufficient to trim into it – the season was dry last fall – testator spoke about horse more than once – wanted to know whether deponents son was coming over for the colt – nothing said by testator respecting the horse which indicated anything out of the way with testator – deponent furnished his son with forty dollars to buy the horse with – the boy agreed to give more money that deponent was willing to give for horse – deponent did not hear the trade between son and testator – testator told deponent the price he wanted for the horse and deponent son told deponent that he got it for twenty shillings less – deponent introduced a Methodist minister Mr. Bullard of Lansingburgh to testator - cannot say whether in August or September – some length of time before he died – it might have been a month, perhaps not so long – deponent thinks testator was sitting in the hall door – cannot state whether it was some time before or after deponents son purchased the horse – it was some time before deponent went after Mr. ________Dr. Trowbridge was at testators in month of September – deponent knows no particular account of deponents being in there – deponent recollects from Dr. Trowbridge having been to Waterford to see the Bryan Boy who was sick then – Mr. Bryan died in September – deponent recollects this because he was acquainted with the Bryan boy – does not recollect the day testator died – deponent saw the funeral of the Bryan boy when deponent was going to church – deponent has not got the day that the Bryan boy died from anyone – not from Mr. Fake – Mr. Hall subpoenaed deponent – deponent has heard Fake state several times what he testified to here – deponent knows that testator sold to Jones a hundred acres of land – deponent made a contract with Jones to plough (sic) a portion of the farm – sometime in the fore part of September or last of August testator told deponent he must not plough (sic) a certain piece of the land sold to Jones until he testator had got the feed off it – this conversation was sometime after the ploughing (sic) commenced. The field was a field which had been sowed with rye – deponent has never said that testator had told deponent that Hall should never have any of his property – deponent has never heard testator express any dissatisfaction with Hall’s marrying his niece – deponent cannot discriminate the particular conversations which took place at the different times deponent saw testator - the conversations at these times were similar - there was a burying ground on the farm in which his brother Stephen was buried – the conversation about the burying ground was at the rational spell deponent before spoke of. Sworn and Subscribed before me Jany 19th 1841 John Storm C. L. Tracy Surrogate of Rensselaer County. Rensselaer County Surrogates Court In the Matter of Proving the Last will and Testament of Smith Germond, deceased. Rensselaer County ss. Eliza Jane Lohnes called by counsel contesting will duly sworn deposes and says deponent resides in Pittstown – knew Smith Germond in his lifetime – has known seven years – has lived in his family – lived the first before Stephen Germond's death. – cannot tell how long Stephen lived in the same house – lived with testator last year in August - first was the day after he came from the Springs – staid there till the week after his death- during that time he appeared to be flighty some part of the time – some part of the time rational – at one time he had a mustard paste on his side and he said it was all boiling over and it would soon be_____ – at this time he was sitting on a chair – don’t recollect of his repeating the expression – he wanted the Dr. called on same day after the plasters had been put on. Dr. Brinsmade came there he told Dr. Brinsmade that they had laid blisters on the meeting house and he wanted a poultice made to lay on them – deponent cannot tell the time when this expression was made. thinks it about a week after the time the plaster was put on – there was a meeting house in the place near by – has heard him ask whether his house was Smith Germond’s house – cannot say at what time – thinks this was before Dr. Trowbridge came down the second time – it was while testator was in the dining room – he also wanted to know what room it was he was in – he said “is this Smith Germond’s house” and what room is this” deponent was in the room once, cannot say but thinks before Dr. Trowbridge came down, in the afternoon and testator requested Mott to lie down and sleep for him for he was sleepy but his eyes would not sleep – Mott lay down on the cot in the same room – he lay about fifteen minutes – Mott said well “that sleep did you a great deal of good didn’t it” testator replied that Mott was to _____ to sleep for him – at one time testator carried chairs out of the kitchen into the sitting room and out of the sitting room into the kitchen – deponent was not in testators room evenings after the watchers came – William Smith lived in the town. W. Smith came after Dr. Brinsmade once – this was after Dr. Trowbridge went home – cannot tell what day or month. Dr. Trowbridge was not there. Deponent thinks he had gone home – probably week after he had gone. On Smiths return from Troy testator asked him if he had seen Smith Germond in Troy and said “they tell me Smith Germond is in Troy today” Smith said no – testator then turned round to Smith and said where did you get all this little family that sat round the testator - Smith was then standing by his side – Smith made no answer - at the time of the conversation about plasters boiling over James Germond laughed – testator said “now laugh will you” Mott then came to testator and said that if he would not make such strange observations they would not laugh anymore. but if he did they must laugh – while Dr. Trowbridge was there first time after deponent came there testator at one time refused to have any clothes on him and wanted to walk from one room to another – he had his clothes taken off and would not have them put on- they would not let him walk from one room to another and Palmer Ketchum took hold of his arm and set him down in a chair. Dr. Trowbridge told him________then Dr. had been there three or four or five days – Deponent was down as a witness some seven or eight days ago – yesterday Mott and Gen. Davis came up to where deponent lives in Pittstown – they asked deponent some questions and wrote down the answers deponent made – when he was flighty he spoke things in a flighty manner – has heard him speak of things that were not – after Dr. Trowbridge went away the second time he was moved into another room – the north room – this was a week after he went away – while in the north room testator said he always knew Smith Germond, but he never knew Smith Germond had more than one head, two eyes, one member, two legs and two arms – this man (speaking of himself) has got two heads, three eyes, two members, three legs and three arms – deponent knew when Mr. Pierson was up there – it was four or five days after Dr. Trowbridge came – did not know that Mr. Pierson came up there to draw a will – deponent did not see testator that day before Mr. Pierson came – cannot recollect whether the scene of carrying the chairs was before Dr. Trowbridge came or after or while he was there – believes that it was while he was there – testator took two chairs out of the kitchen, left one at dining room door and took the other into sitting room – in a short time he came back with one of the sitting room chairs and left it in kitchen – then took another from kitchen into sitting room and then brought another from sitting room into kitchen – did not say what it was done for – had not done this before – did not afterwards – this was some time along in forenoon – cannot tell what time this was with aspect to the time of Mr. Pierson being there – the cot bedstead broke down the day Mr. Pierson was there – testator lay down upon the cot and it fell and testator jumped up and said “goodbye ______Mott, God bless you. I hope we shall meet in another world” he bade Dr. Trowbridge goodbye also – there was no one in the room except Mr. Mott and Dr. Trowbridge – deponent stood in the door – testator was not in the kitchen at all the day Mr. Pierson was there and deponent did not see him pass from one room to another that day – deponent saw Mr. Gaston there one morning – cannot recollect what day it was – believes Dr. Trowbridge was there at that time – cannot tell whether it was before or after the day Mr. Pierson was there – testator came out of the dining room and went out doors – came out very fast – he slammed the door shut and said ”damn you if you won’t go with me stay there” went out into the yard – Mott went out and helped him in – he appeared to be out of breath – walked along and Mott led him into the dining room through the kitchen – deponent thought he was flighty that morning – at the chair scene deponent thought he was not in his right mind and that he would not have done so if he had been in his right mind (the question which called out foregoing and the answer was objected to) after Dr. Trowbridge went home the second time after deponent commenced living there and before testator was removed from dining room testator asked Mrs. Mott to fetch down his beds and lay them down there – Mrs. Mott did not bring down the beds – one day Dr. Trowbridge came out of the dining room into the kitchen and said “he is as crazy a man as I ever saw” this was along in the afternoon cannot recollect what day – deponent knew testator well before she came to live with him in August – had lived with him before some six or eight months before Stephens death – after deponent had been there a week or so – the last time she lived with him she thought his mind was not as it used to be – his eyes looked natural so far as deponent knows – as natural as when she lived there before – his countenance looked bad – deponent thought him sometimes deranged sometimes rational – he failed all the while after deponent went there – his strength failed him – his mind was sometimes quite flighty sometimes not – deponent thinks that as the disease grew in him his mind failed him up to his death- Cross Examined: Mr. Doolittle called on deponent first to ascertain about her testimony – she was then at Storms. Mr. Hall and Mr. Storm came after deponent – said they wanted deponent as a witness – Mr. Hall inquired what deponent knew – was at Mr. Storms from Monday until Friday night – was examined by Mr. Doolittle on Tuesday – has not been examined by any one opposing the will since then until today – Dr. Bryan called on deponent when she was at Storms. Dr. Bryan asked deponent if she had lived at testators and said she must have known that he was there – Mr. Hall came with Dr. Bryan – cannot tell what time in August deponent went to live at testators – lived there nearly three month – went there about first of August and left last of October – Mrs. Mott came about three weeks after deponent did and Dr. Trowbridge two days after she did – Dr. Bryan attended as a physician when deponent first went there – didn’t see Dr. Bryan but twice after deponent came there – once the same week and once the week after – after Dr. Bryan left _____ Dr. Brinsmade commenced visiting – between two and three days after Bryan left Dr. Brinsmade commenced – deponent saw testator every day after Bryan left until Trowbridge came – it was after Dr. Bryan left that conversation about plaster was – cannot say whether the conversation with William Smith was after or before Dr. Trowbridge came – do not recollect moving chairs but once but that was while Dr. Trowbridge was there – Mrs. Bloom was in the kitchen and Nabby Ryan – don’t know where Dr. Trowbridge was – can’t say whether before or after Mr. Pierson was there – thinks it was before – could not tell whether it was the same day Gaston came there – nearly four o’clock of same day Mr. Pierson was there – deponent saw testator come out of sitting room and lay down on the cot. Dr. Trowbridge came in during the time – did not see Dr. Trowbridge until after the cot had fallen – the deponent saw him at sitting room door – testator bid Mr. Mott goodbye and when Dr. Trowbridge came to the sitting room door he bid Dr. Trowbridge goodbye – does not recollect seeing Dr. Brinsmade or any other person besides Dr. Trowbridge, Mr. Pierson and the family that day – does not know Mr. Pierson – never saw him since that day – was in kitchen the principal part of that day and did not see testator in kitchen. he might have come in when deponent was out – saw no moving of chairs that day – after Dr. Trowbridge went away testator was moved from dining room – it was after Mr. Mott went to New York the first time – he was gone to New York three or four days – the removal was after he returned some three or four days – testator was in the dining room when he inquired whether this was Smith Germond’s house – cannot recollect when it was – deponent stated yesterday on inquiry made by Genl Davis at Pittstown that she discovered none of these things she has testified about until after Mrs. Mott came to testators - deponent says that all these things happened after Mrs. Mott came there – the inquiry about the house took place first – the talk about the meeting house about a week after – the chair scene was while Dr. Trowbridge was there he staid nearly a week – cannot tell how long after Mrs. Mott came, testator asked Mott to sleep for him – at the time spoken of by deponent when he had his clothes off Ketchum got him down in his chair – he was on the bed and got up testator had nothing but his shirt on – nobody there but Dr. Trowbridge and Palmer Ketchum – his conversation about his having more than one head was after he was removed into north room and after he had been there about a week or fortnight. Mrs. Mott and Mrs. Bloom were by at that conversation – neither made any reply to his conversation – the day testator went out into the back yard Gaston came up through the garden – deponent heard testator make no other remark than those that she has given - Mott followed testator in two or three minutes – does not recollect testator making any remark when carrying the chairs – deponent did not judge testator was crazy at that time from anything he said – testator did not go as far as the backhouse but towards it – deponent did not have much conversation with testator – did not have conversation with him once a week – deponents opinion is founded upon the facts she has detailed in evidence – once or twice she heard testator give directions about farming – about ploughing (sic) – this was before Mrs. Mott came. heard him give some directions after Mrs. Mott came – cannot say what – saw no other indication of want of mind than what she has given- Direct Examination resumed, Mrs. Mott came about three weeks after deponent and until she came testator was rational – before she came when testator had spasms his mind was flighty – noticed this after deponent had been there about a week – does not know that any pains were taken to keep his mind quiet or keep him from …….until his removal to the north room – they told Jonathan Allen that he must not go into him but this was after he had removed to the north room - deponent supposes it was with a view to divert his mind that he rode out – he rode out daily where it was pleasant – Mott rode out with him. when Mott was at New York, Ketchum rode out with him – does not know that any of the occurrences she has related happened between the time of the coming of Mrs. Mott and Dr. Trowbridge – the first of the singular things that deponent noticed was about the mustard paste – Mrs. Mott spread it on the cloth – cannot recollect whether it was before or after this he spoke about his house – cannot tell how many of these things happened before Dr. Trowbridge went away or before Mr. Pierson was there. There were no watchers there until Mrs. Mott came – Jonathan Allen worked for testator. Sworn and subscribed before her Me Jany 19th 1841 Eliza Jane X Lohnes mark C.L. Tracy Surrogate of Renss. County Rensselaer County Surrogates Court In the Matter of the proving of the will and Testament of Smith Germond deceased Rensselaer County ss: Alpheus Warren sworn says – knew testator – had known him ten or twelve years – has lived near him about three years, about 3 or 4 rods from his house – saw him most every day during the months of August and September – sometimes did not see him for several days together – saw him three or four times a week after his return from the Springs – thinks he saw things in testator which gave ____of the state of mind – sometimes he would talk about every thing – could not confine his mind to anything – he talked flighty – at other times he would appear to be more straight in his mind and would talk as he always used to – does not recollect any other things deponent took notice of – deponent was in his house three or four times a week in August – generally speaking along the last of August and from that time to his death he was flighty – during this time has seen him in deponents store once or twice – in September deponent things about the 11th or 12th – he appeared to be very uneasy – he acted wild and strange – cannot say what he said – his appearance was wild – wanted to be going – thinks Mr. Mott was with him – has no recollection of being in the store when testator spoke of the murder of Capt. White by his nephew and hearing or hearing any such conversation – deponent watched with him twice – once the latter part of September – once in October – the time in September he was partly wild all night – he spoke occasionally of everything being in the room - of devils being in the room – Sworn and Subscribed before me Alpheus Warren Jany 19, 1841 C. L. Tracy Surrogate of Renss County Rensselaer County Surrogates Court In the Matter of the proving of the will and Testament of Smith Germond deceased Rensselaer County ss: William McTier called by counsel for executors, sworn says deponent resides in Salem, Washington County - has known testator twenty years or more has been on intimate terms with him twenty years or more - has had no business transactions with him the last fifteen years - saw him in September - nothing to refer to to fix date - deponent and Mr. Matthews are in the habit of getting money out of Lansingburgh Bank - deponent was down the first week in September or about 1st September. Had obtained discount at Bank and note was dated about 1st - went down to draw money - on deponents return saw testator in his hall with other gentlemen - immediately after deponent went in the others with him - one testator said was Dr. Trowbridge who had arrived from the west the day before - understood that Dr. Brinsmade was one - had conversation with testator on the nature of his complaint - testator mentioned the various views of physicians in regard to his case - this was about 4 or 5 in the afternoon - was there half an hour - there was conversation between deponent and testator while deponent remained there - could not see anything in testators mind but what was sound - did not discover anything different in his state of mind from what it was before - afterwards and about the 15th September deponent was there again and saw testator in the hall - when deponent went to the house he saw testator asleep in the hall and a lady sitting near him brushing the flies away from him - testator awoke as deponent entered the hall and said “ I was about asleep when I awoke, I found Mrs. Mott brushing the flies away from me” the lady immediately withdrew - asked testator about his health - testator was ____- there was then some conversation between testator and deponent with regard to wool - testator asked deponent what Matthews and deponent were doing and how much they had sold - deponent believes he told testator - he then wanted to know deponents views with regard to wool at any price he had heard spoken of that season - said he had some conversation with John Barker of Granville in regard to his wool - Barker is a wool buyer - said Barker had intimated a desire to purchase his lot of wool for an eastern concern - had expected to have seen Barker previous to that time, as yet he had not called - asked deponent when he had seen Barker - deponent told him Barker lives above deponent in the county - testator said he doubted about their trading if Barker came - thought the prices would not meet his views with regard to value of the articles - at testators request or at deponents suggestion deponent went up stairs to look at testators wool - returned and had conversation with him in relation to the quality and condition of it - he remarked that it was to valuable for any price he had heard named yet and that he thought he should keep it - some conversation took place in regard to the season as it was a very dry season and testator remarked about effect of season in the value of property and especially sheep - that it had effect of reducing them in value - deponent observed nothing in his state of mind but what was sound - his body appeared to be weak - his mind appeared as deponent had seen it on other occasions- Cross Examination: Deponent did not know that Gen. Davis had his testimony written down - deponent called on Mr. Pierson and told him that he did not consider his testimony any of consequence and that he wanted to know whether his testimony would be of consequence and Mr. Pierson wrote it down - deponent saw testator at testators house thinks in the month of July about time of persons going to Springs - Mr. Fake who preparing to go to the Springs - didn’t recollect testators saying anything about going to Springs - was there 20 minutes - some conversation principally in regard to his health - saw testator also in the Spring - don’t recollect any other time that season before September - deponent had notes discounted in June, July, August, September – cannot recollect the number in each month – cannot now fix upon any note discounted at the same time deponent called on testator – won’t attempt to fix the precise day deponent was at testators – deponent fixes on some time about the 15th September because deponent ____was down on the 23rd when a fire occurred at Salem and deponent was down the week previous – deponent reported the conversations he had with testator to deponents partner after deponents return home and before the fire – has heard that testator was flighty and that there was no satisfaction in talking with him. but whether before the 15th cannot say – knows that he heard it after the 15th when deponent was down on the 9th or 10th of October and did not call on the 15th. has no recollection of noticing or thinking whether he was sound or unsound – about the 9th or 10th of October deponent heard there was no satisfaction in conversing with him – deponent on the time about middle of September talked with testator about business that testator had been engaged in – testator had been a prominent wool grower a good many years – one of the earliest in that region – in different years he had bought some wool in small quantities and _____ Direct resumed. John Barker informed deponent about testator’s flightiness. John Barker is the wool grower before spoken of. Sworn and Subscribed Wm. Mctier before me Jany 20th 1841 C. L. Tracy Surrogate of Renssalear County Rensselaer County Surrogates Court In the Matter of proving the Will and Testatment of Smith Germond deceased. Rensselaer County ss: Stephen Niles called by counsel for executor sworn, deposes and says - resides in Shaftsbury Vermont – has known testator twenty years or more – has done business with him – deponent is a drover – testator has been deponents endorser for a number of years, for a considerable amount, sometimes 6, 8,10,12 thousand dollars – deponent was at testators last fall on the 2nd and 3rd day of September. deponent is pretty confident – was there when deponent was going to Troy and on his return the next day on the 2nd Sept had conversation with testator nearly and hour – sat on stoop – Dr. Trowbridge was there – deponent inquired of testator about his health and buying stock. in the conversation consulted him about propriety of purchasing cattle that fall – more generally talked with testator to know what he thought best about buying cattle – on this occasion consulted him – deponent thought the state of his mind at this time to be as good as it ever had been since deponent had known him – on the 3rd deponent called again – testator was then in one of the back rooms of the house remained with him but a short time – deponent had a sick daughter and said he would go and bring her to see Dr. Trowbridge if he would be there – testator said that the Doctor would be there if deponent brought her down between that and the next Sunday. on the 3rd deponent asked testator how he did and he said he felt little ______- saw no change in his mind between that day and the day before – testator said something about deponents brother having turned Whig and said if he could see them he could make them see clearer – he sent his complements to them and that they must remember him and come and see him – he had been their endorser also - deponent returned to testators on the following Sunday with his wife and daughter – Dr. Trowbridge was there and some of the Motts – deponent saw testator and eat dinner with him – was there that day three or four hours – came down to Troy just at night it was the sixth September - testator sat at table with ____ testator and deponent talked together before and after dinner – thinks testator rode down to Troy towards night – cannot recollect the particular subject of conversation – talked mostly about stock as usual – did not see but the state of his mind was as good then as any time deponent had ever seen him – either Mott or Trowbridge was with him in his ride to Troy – he rode down below Stears (?) tavern – Mrs. Niles was with deponent all the time he was at testators – deponent stopped the next day Monday and staid but a short time that day – had no more conversation that to bid testator good bye – thinks he was on Sunday in a middle room from which they went into another to eat dinner – discovered no change in his mind on that day from the day before – did not see testator after that in September – Cross Examination : lives twenty seven miles from testator – has lived in the town of Shaftsbury better than forty years – testator did endorse for deponent last fall – deponent did not buy any stock of any amount last fall – deponent knows it was the 2nd or 3rd September because he came down to pay a note due the 2nd day – deponents brother lives in White Creek, Washington County – deponent went that way on his return home – does not know that he thought anything about testators state of mind while there – Dr. Trowbridge was at testators on deponents return home on Monday. Sworn and Subscribed Stephen Niles before me Jany 20th 1841 C. L. Tracy Surrogate of Renssalear County Rensselaer County Surrogates Court In the Matter of Proving the Will and Testament of Smith Germond deceased Rensselaer County ss: John J. Viele called by counsel for executor being duly sworn says deponent resides in the town of Hoosick, County of Rensselaer – knew testator, has known him twenty years or more – saw him once the latter part of summer or first part of fall. thinks in August – he was then at his house in Lansingburgh – had conversation with him, mainly with regard to his health – probably fifteen or twenty minutes with him – about the 18th or 20th day of August – did not discover but that the state of his mind was as good as deponent ever knew it – never saw him after that – deponent had a conversation with Fake about testator last week – while Fake was here. Cross Examination. deponent is thirty two years old – cannot say he has had any great experience with persons of insane mind – he has known friends to be delirious when sick – two or three individuals with whom deponent was acquainted have been as deponent supposes insane – has not had occasion to be with insane persons much – deponent drove up to testators at the time mentioned – deponent spoke to testator without getting out of the carriage – testator came out near the gate towards deponent – deponent asked him how his health was – he said he don’t seem to improve much – deponent asked what his disease was – he replied that it was a compliment of diseases – did not know exactly – but he strongly suspected his heart was affected – he then spoke of weather and briefly on politics – deponent lived about sixteen or seventeen miles from testator since deponents recollection. Sworn and Subscribed John J. Viele before me Jany 20th 1841 C. L. Tracy Surrogate of Rensselaer County Rensselaer County Surrogates Court In the Matter of proving the will and Testament of Smith Germond deceased Rensselaer County ss. Preserved Brownell called by Executors Counsel sworn says that he has known testator five and twenty years – saw him sometime in August, the latter part of August or first of September – saw him at Chauncy Ives house – had some conversation with him, not a great deal – deponent was there about half an hour – deponent talked with him about his complaint – about its distressing him to lie down and want of sleep – he said that most of the sleep he got he got sitting up – deponent had seen him frequently for the last several years – deponent took it that at this time he was as sound in mind as usual, thought feeble in body – don’t know that it then occurred to deponent whether he was sound in mind or not – he appeared to be pretty feeble – he had something to say about his physician and medicine he had taken that did not apply to his case – that the medicine did not agree with him. Subscribed and sworn Preserved Brownell before me Jany 20th 1841 C.L. Tracy Surrogate of Renss County Rensselaer County Surrogates Court In the Matter of proving the will and Testament of Smith Germond deceased Rensselaer County ss. Thomas C. Brinsmade sworn deposes and says deponent is a physician – has been one eighteen years – resides in Troy – knew testator, was his physician in his last sickness – saw him first the 9th of August at his house – this was after he had been to the Springs – Dr. Bryan was also at testators on 9th August and had been his attending physician – deponent remained with him half an hour to an hour- his disease was an enlargement of the heart – that was the primary difficulty – he had afterwards dropsy in consequence – deponent saw him every day after that until the 15th August – Dr. Bryan was with deponent every day – between the 9th and 15th of August testator was not flighty at all at anytime when deponent was present – he was rational – there might have been a remark at one time that ____aberration - don’t recollect distinctly about it – did not visit him at his house for about seven days after the 15th – testator came down in the interval to deponents office – deponent did not visit him at his house until the 25th – while he visited at deponents office his state of mind was rational – on the 23rd deponent again commenced visiting him at his house – deponent went to his house every day in August after the 23rd he may have come down to deponents office one or two days – deponent saw him either at house or at his office every day from 23rd August through August – saw him every day until Dr. Trowbridge came – saw testator at his home on the 2nd and 3rd September – thinks he took Dr. Trowbridge up on the 2nd – deponent remained that day an hour or two the day he took Dr. Trowbridge up – the 1st or 2nd day Dr. Trowbridge was there – deponent and Dr. Trowbridge had a long conversation with testator about wool and farming generally – if it was the 2nd day that the conversation was held testator conversed as rationally as deponent ever knew him – thinks he was there on the third September, not certain – was at testators on the 4th September probably about 3 or 4 o’clock – remained there that day an hour or two – don’t recollect seeing anyone there but Dr. Trowbridge, Mr. Mott and the ____attendants – testator was rational that afternoon while deponent saw him – he was more comfortable, had slept some – deponent recollects this was the case for two or three days about the time Dr. Trowbridge came – he rested well nights – deponent saw testator every day in September except the 5th , 6th or 7th some one or two days while Dr. Trowbridge was there – testator was delirious sometimes at night as deponent understood – never saw him in the night until October – at most of the time when deponent visited him he was not delirious – at one time cannot fix time, thinks it on the morning of the first or second September he made a remark incohesively about his lung not belonging to him – deponent understood that he had not slept well during the night and had been delirious (Counsel for opponent to will objects to deponents describing testators conversation and claims that he should give language of testator) – on the morning referred to he spoke of the lung as not belonging to him, as though it was something external to him – cannot recollect what he said – he said “this lung is all the trouble” deponent supposed he thought that the lung was exterior to him and away from him – had conversation further that same morning with him – staid there from half an hour to an hour – he conversed rationally and the remark about the lung was the only remark deponent recollects which appeared irrational – he conversed rationally on the subject of his disease his physicians and medicines – deponent saw evidences of delirium after that but cannot recollect when but deponent thinks when he next saw it, it was after testator went into the north room – the aberration exhibited on the 1st September was from want of rest the night before – his difficulty of breathing and watchfulness – deponent calls this delirium – delirium is a temporary aberration of mind arising from bodily disease – delirium is temporary – insanity permanent – sometimes as the disease lessons the delirium lessons – at times in testators case there was less of the disease than at others – has never discovered anything in testators except what deponent calls delirium – thinks he never saw him delirious during the month of September except after a night of watchfulness – during the month of September he was rational during the time that deponent saw him – toward the close of September or early in October sometimes he was delirious – deponent understood he was delirious some nights during the month of September – deponent recollects distinctly seeing him on the afternoon of 4th September – deponent recollects this because Dr. Trowbridge said he had made his will that day – the condition of aberration of mind arises from difficulty of breathing, dropsical affection & other affections – he was in possession of his mind except when the delirium was on him – his mind was perfectly rational – at all times during September when deponent saw him and the nature of his disease or business came up he was and conversed perfectly rational – deponent recollects particularly about deponents sister going there about middle of September – his memory was good about her and her plan of residence – she then lived in _______ - testator had known her before – deponent has no recollection of testator every saying to deponent that the meeting house had been blistered and he wanted a poultice to put on it – should think he would have recollected of anything had been said to him of that kind – has known testator 17 years – has been his family physician for about the same length of time – Dr. Wright preformed the post mortem examination – there was no visit that deponent made to him when deponent had any doubt but that he was capable of doing business – there was no time that deponent knows of in the month of September when he was not capable of doing business – deponent took pains to direct his mind from his disease by conversation and found he talked rationally – the delirium arising from disease frequently first evidences itself in muttering on first awaking from sleep – this is a general characteristic of delirium and was of the delirium of testator – Cross Examination – deponent has never been connected with any insane hospital – has treated a few, not many cases of insanity – for the last two or three weeks of testators life he was delirious – the rest of the time for the last eight or ten days – at other times in October he was rational some – in the last few days of his life he fancied that he was sometimes trading sometimes driving horses sometime calling at a tavern – fancied himself away from home and perplexed with business and imagined himself perplexed with business sometimes that he was driving cattle – he spoke of his legs as though they did not belong to himself – wished the bandages removed and his legs removed – deponent thinks he heard him say once that they were not Smith Germond’s legs – by some delirium is called a species of insanity – but there is a manifest distinction – delirium arises from some bodily disease or organic affection – inflammation of the brain – damaged organic affection of the heart produces delirium – perhaps insanity may be connected with disease of the head – but disease of the heart does not of itself produce insanity – insanity sometimes arises from organic disease ______disease which cannot be detected – it is the general opinion that there is some morbid change in the organ of the brain in insanity whether the source or consequence is not known – disease of the lungs frequently produce delirium but does not produce insanity – disease of the lungs and insanity may exist in the same subject but insanity is not effect of that cause – organic disease of the liver is said sometimes to cause melancholy, some species of insanity – diseased brain causes insanity - _______a French writer is a good authority on the subject - the London Medical ___Reviews good authority – also Dr. Becks Medical Jurisprudence – deponent believes that these authorities set down these diseases as causes of insanity – a diseased ____is laid down as a cause of insanity – deponent in speaking of these diseases speaks of the _______not remote causes of insanity – insanity is produced by physical as well as ___causes – testators lungs were affected a good deal particularly towards the last of his life – deponent supposes they had been affected some time – there was some disease of the left lung when deponent had first seen him – supposes he had diseased lungs the spring before – deponent supposes from symptoms there was some solidification of the lung – deponent thinks he has heard that on examination the left lobe of the lung was rendered solid and that some portion of the right lobe was – this is a different kind of disease from consumption – the lungs became useless for respiration – they were hepatized – the heart was enlarged deponent understood to twice its natural size – deponent supposes the enlargement of the heart was the primary difficulty – this is a slow disease – may have been diseased for years – the walls of the heart were somewhat thickened – don’t recollect to have heard what the state of the liver was said to be – there was disease of the brain – there was a serious effusion between the membranes of the brain and into its ventricles – thinks the membranes were thickened – the middle membrane – the symptoms while deponent treated him indicated affection of the brain during last few days of his life – the thickening of the membrane may occur in a few days – three days or a week has seen it a good deal thickened in a child which had been sick only a few days – the external symptoms abated a good deal sometimes and sometimes the diseased action of the organs abated and was arrested for some time – from the 9th to 16th August he was better – coughed less – sometime along last of August the dropsical symptoms occurred – afterwards they were very much relived again in September about the middle of September from 12th to 15th – they increased after that until 8th or 10th of October when they were relieved again from deponents knowledge of his case there never was any radical change in his disease of the heart and lungs – there was elimination of dropsical affection of chest – it was merely temporary – the disease of testator increased but not steadily – sometimes the diseased action was relived - the disease of the heart continued and at each return of the symptoms the progress of the disease increased – deponent has had no evidence of the existence of insanity before it manifested itself by external demonstration – cannot conceive of a case of insanity which is not manifest – deponents opinion is that there is some which is not manifest to somebody – in some cases after insanity exists in persons for length of time and becomes chronic – persons conversing with the subject cannot discover the insanity – it sometimes happens that insane persons will converse orderly and rationally upon subjects with which they have been familiar while sane – this is in deponents opinion where monomania exists – it was about the last of August or first September when deponent first noticed delirium in testator – it was then it first became thought of and of consequence in the medical treatment – it was then considered of consequence in the treatment – on the morning before Dr. Trowbridge arrived on the 1st or 2nd September , testator spoke of having had a very restless night – spoke of his diseased lung and then made a remark deponent cannot state what it was, about his lung – deponent then remarked to someone that he was a little incoherent – he spoke of “a lung” as if it did not belong to him – the calls of deponent were generally short from five to thirty minutes – longer in testators case because he was unwilling to let deponent go – he wanted some physician all the while – his habit was to send for physicians always when family was sick - and often in the night on change of symptoms – usually staid with testator from half an hour to an hour – had long conversation more than on one occasion about his cattle and business – sometimes deponent took breakfast or dinner there and at table by conversation endeavored to direct his mind – generally solicited some light subject – generally had something to say about his medicines, how often and what times he should take them, about his symptoms – this would generally consume the half hour – was particular about deponents coming up at particular time – when deponent was going away he would detain him by repeating symptoms apparently for the purpose of detaining deponent – deponent would say to testator that he had told him that before and he would say “yes, yes I recollect – he frequently inquired about a sick person in deponents family – a persons memory is often exceedingly acute in cases of insanity – the immediate cause of his death was the watery effusion in his brain and in his chest particularly in the brain – the effusion in the chest occasioned the inability to lie down – his nervous disease caused some of it – the disease of the heart was the occasion of the effusion of the chest and all the other diseases – deponent recollects ordering brandy at one time, thinks in October when testator was in the north room – deponent forgets whether deponent or Dr. Wright or both went up to testators that night – persons insane often imagine they hear and see things they do not – has known an instance of an insane person with whom he could converse a long time without discovering evidences of derangement – has never been acquainted with a clergyman who became insane – the apparently sane periods are evidence of less diseased action at that time – insane persons frequently have violent paroxysms at times and at times great calmness – frequently insane persons are more affected at night than in day time – insanity is frequently and ordinarily attended with wakefulness – insane persons usually sleep less than rational ones – great nervous excitability ordinarily attends insanity – a sudden insult or impulse suddenly arouses the insanity and brings up this excitability - in insanity it is thought advantageous to keep the mind amused – don’t recollect reading any case of an insane clergyman who was able to conduct the services on the Sabbath – a person insane can often carry on the process of reasoning with great acuteness – persons insane often recognize their acquaintances and inquire rationally about the condition and health of their absent friends – they sometimes struggle against the disease and make an effort to keep it a secret from other persons – has seen testator when the paroxysms of great distress were on him – several of them – was apparently in great distress – great difficulty of breathing of breathing and a spasmodic action of the muscles of respiration – the spasmodic action was occasioned by nervous irritation and irregular ________ Direct Examination resumed – without insanity wakefulness would ordinarily attend diseases like that of testator – the diseased organs of testator together with nervous initial would cause want of sleep- Cross Examination resumed – Wakefulness alone if carried on a length of time will cause insanity – it is the damaged action of the nervous system which produces insanity – Direct Examination again resumed – such excitability of the nerves as existed in testators case may exist without insanity – testator was not insane any time when deponent saw him in September – nervous excitability often attends disease of heart and lungs and such difficulties as testator had. Subscribed and sworn before me Jany 20th, 1841 Tho. C. Brinsmade C. L. Tracey, Surrogate of Renss County