Other Court: Morgan Powell Murder Case Trial of Patrick McKenna and Thomas Fisher Prelimanary Hearing Contributed for use in USGenWeb Archives by Barb Lavin paschuyl@yahoo.com USGENWEB NOTICE: Printing this file by non-commercial individuals and libraries is encouraged, as long as all notices and submitter information is included. Any other use, including copying files to other sites requires permission from the submitters PRIOR to uploading to any other sites. We encourage links to the state and county table of contents. ____________________________________________________________ Morgan Powell Case Commonwealth vs Thomas P. Fisher and Patrick McKenna Sept 23, 1876 - Dec 14,1876 Prelimanary Hearing, as if upon Habeas Corpus, before the court of Common Pleas of Schuylkill County September 23, 1876 pgs 1-50 page 1 Pottsville, Saturday Sept 23, 1876 In the Court of Common Pleas Of Schuylkill County Commonwealth ---| vs | Thomas P. Fisher and |---- Hearing, before Judges Pershing Patrick McKenna ---| and Green, as if upon a writ of Habeas Corpus Carl Mulhearn, sworn and examined , By Geril. Albright: Q: Do you know the two defendants, Thomas Fisher ad Pat McKenna? A: Yes Sir Q: How long have you known them? A: I guess about five years Q: Do you know John Donahue and Matthew Donahue? A: Yes Sir Q: Do you know Alexander Campbell? page 2 A: Yes; I know him this three or four years Q: Do you know whether those two men are members of the Ancient Order of the Hiberians? A: I do not know whether they are or are not now Q: Have they been? A: Yes Sir Q: Do you know whether they were officiers? A: All I know is that Tom Fisher was County Delegate of Carbon County and I think to the best of my opinion that McKenna was Body Master of Carbon County too. I cannot name the town, it was in Summit Hill. Q: Is that where Mr. Fisher lived? A: I think it is Q: Is that where McKenna lived? A: Yes sir; some place near it, I ws never in his house. Q: If you know anything about the murder of Morgan Powell will you tell this Court what knowledge you have on that subject? A: What I know about that is; I was living at a place they called Upper New Kirk, about a mile out of Tamaqua, and when I came in from my workon Saturday evenng John Donahue and Matty Donahue was there before me. page 3 John Donahue told me he was going over to Summit Hill to Dr. Donahue's for a bottle of medicine for his daughter, and he asked me would I go along with him, and Matty was there too. The road was lonesome coming back, and he asked me would I go along with him and I said I would. So I went with him and the three of us went out and went to Tamaqua; we went to a tavern here kept by man named Patrick Maley. He moved from there, he is not there now, but he kept it at that time, and we went over then and that was the fist time I was in Summit Hill. Q: Did you get there in daylight or night? A: We to there when it was getting duskish. We wwent into a saloon there; the man that kept it was named Jimmy Sweeney on Summit Hill or Storm Hill, I don't know which of the two names they call it. It was getting duskish. I wasn't long there until a crowd came in; there were a good crowd in. This Tom Fisher came in and Jack called him Shusy or some name like that, for a bye-name, and I asked him who was that and he made me acquainted with Tom Fisher. page 4 Q: Is it this man here? A: Yes Sir Q: Which one? A: The one who sits beside Mr. Ryon. Q: Was Pat McKenna there? A: Yes Sir; that there; (pointing to the left,Fisher) I knows him before in Tamaqua. This Fisher treated, a McKenna treated, and I drunk a bottle of porter I think. We were there for a good while. They were treating and drinking around, and there was some fellow thee by the name of Smith. Him and me had some words. I don't know what he said to me, and I said something back to him, and he made a strike at me, and Pat McKenna made a strike at him, and then we stayed there awhile and then Jack Donahue said he had to go Dr. Donahue's for the medicine and we five, the two Donahue's, me and Fisher and McKenna went out nd went up there. I can't say what road it was; But where he took us he said it was to Dr. Donahue's house, a he went in to get the bottle of medicine and he got out and said, there page 5 was nobody in but the wife and he didn't get the bottle. So we walked up the road, I don't know what road it was, and Fisher said that Morgan Powell was in the office at that time, and we walked up the road and Fisher and the two Donahue's walked ahead and me and Pat McKenna walked beind. When we got up a good piece he pulled a bottle out of his coat pocket, and there was a crowd of men on the street, I don't know them or who they were. He pulled a bottle out of his pocket and asked me, who stood on one side, to have a drink with him. Then I seen a man coming over from the store, or office, I don't know which, meeting those two, and then I heard the crackof the cap and those two were sitting there, and I don't know where we went. Then I heard a shot fired and I heard a man hollering "I am shot boys," and then we all run. I run and those two was ahead up the road Fisher and McKenna; and Donahue went along and he took me into the bush, they was all sitting there -- Q: Who was sitting there? page 6 A: Nobody but the two Donahues, and I was shaking when I gots up to him and Donahue had a revolver n his hand, and he said if I would speak or any of us he would give us the same as he gave Morgan Powell. Q: Was anything said about the police? A: Yes Sir; he aid there was a crowd of police below there. We heard the me coming up by the breaker or somewhere, and we stood in the bush we came away. Q: What became of Fisher and McKenna? A: I can not say; they went along the road. I don't know where they went. Q: They left you and and the Donahues's in the bush? A: Yes sir. Q: What did Fisher and McKenna say about Morgan Powell, before you heard McKenna say he was in the house? A: I didn't hear them mention his name before. Q: Did you hear what the two Donahue's went to Summit Hill for? A: They said it was for a bottle of medicine for his step-daughter. Q: Did you see McKenna and Fisher that evening again? page 7 A: Not that evening Q: What did you do to get away? A: We came from the bush and we didn't know what road we were going. Jack was making the road out of the stars, following the star, going the road through old brests and other places and old falls, until we come over near Bull Run or some place, and I come over there to Patrick Maleys again in Tamaqua, and there was some crowd in the bar room playing cards, wewent into the kitchen and Maley fetched in some kind of a loaf of bread and a knife and he commenced cuting it, and Donahue old him what we done. By Mr. Bartholomew: Q: Where was that? A: I Patrick Maley's in Tamaqua coming back By Mr. Albright: Q: What time in the morning or night was that? A: I can't say, but it must be up to two or three o'clock I can not say. Q: Did you stay there, the balance of the of the night? page 8 A: No sir, I did not. Q: Did you go home? A: I went up to my house at the Upper Run. Q: When was this? A: It was on a Saturady night; I can ot say what day of the month. Q: Was it before or after New Years or Christmas? A: It was before New Yers any how. Q: Was it in the winter time? A: There was snow on the ground. Q: About how many years ago? A: I can ot swear whether it is four or five Christmases coming. Q: If you saw Mr. Fisher and McKenna, afterward, in Tamaqua, at Maley's, with Jack Donahue and Mat Donahue and saw either of them pay any money to Jack Donahue, state about that? A: Yes Sir; I did. I was standing on the street near Squire O'Brien's office and a fellow by the name of Mat Martin an his brother was along with him. Mat was tight, and Jack Donahue came up and told me he wanted me down the street to have a drink. So I went down into Maley's There was Fisher and McKenna there, and four or five more, I don't know the rest, page 9 and Fisher told Maley to fetch some kind of drinks up stairs and he went up, he took the drinks up and Donahue called me up. By Mr. Hughes: Q: Was McKenna there? A: Yes Sir; Donahue called me up and Fisher pulled out the money, and he said he thought he could get on hundred dollars, but the the times were poor and he could only raise thirty dollars and he turned the thiry dollars to John Donahue and told him to share with Matty, and I think he said you have the right to give a few dollars to Mullhearn,so Donahue said he would. Q: What did Fisher say that money was paid to Donahue for? A: For his trouble he said Q: What trouble? A: He didn't say for what trouble Q: Do you know of any other trouble hhad, but the killing of Morgan Powell for Fisher? A: I do not know Q: Where was that money paid? A: In Pat Maley's house, in Tamaqua Q: How soon after the job was the money paid? page 10 A: It might have be - I can't say what day of the month was that, and I don't know how long after it, I can not say. Q: Was it a week or two, or three weeks, after the murder of Morgan Powell? A: I don't think it was three weeks. It might be, Idon't know. Q: But it was some where around there? A: Somewhere around there. Q: Had you seen Fisher and McKenna from the time that Morgan Powell was shot until this night at Maley's, in Tamaqua; had you sen them betwen the two times? A: No Sir, Ihad not. Q: How did you happe to meet there that eveing? A: What night? It was in the day time. I was on the stret; Donahue came up for me and took me down to Maley's to have a drink with him and these two came in. Q: Who all were present when the money was paid? A: Pat Maley was present; Idon't know any of the rest. The other men, two or three more of them, I did not know. Q: McKenna abd Fisher were there? A: Yes Sir page 11 Q: Did they say anything at that time about the Morgan Powell murder? A: No sir, they did not. Q: Did they afterward, at any time, speakto you about it? A: No sir, they never spoke to me about it. Q: Either of them? A: no. Q: Was there any body else thee from Summit Hill that night? A: There must be from Summit Hill, the night he was shot? Q: The night the money was paid? A: It wasn't in the night at all; it was in the day light. Q: Well, the day the money was paid? A: I don't know whether they were from Summit Hill or not. They were not from Tamaqua I did not know anybody but Patrick Maley. They were strangers to me. Q: Where did Donahue get the pistol that he shot Morgan Powell with? A: That I can not say Q: How many shots were fired? A: There was only one and the cap was cracked, and he said that the pistol went page 12 back on him but it was the first time she went back on him, that he had he screwed up too tight. Q: How long have you belonged to this order of the Molly Maguires? A: I can't say how long; I guess eight or nine years. Q: Did you know the society by the name of Buckshots? A: Yes sir; some called them Buck shots, and some called them Molly Maguies. Q: Had you signs ad passwords, from the first time that you joined them? A: Yes Sir Q: Where did you join it? A: I joined it in Hazelton Q: How d you get the signs and passwords? A: I got them from the Body Master. Q: Do you knoe where he got them from? A: He got them from the County Delegate Q: And where did the County Delegate get them from? A: That is more then I can say; I don't know where he got them from. page 13 Q: Were those signals and passwords called "goods" in those days? A: Yes Sir; they wee. Q: Were thery of the same kind and character that you have been receiving within the last year or two? A: The same thing; not the same things, because they come fresh every three months Q: And toasts and quarrelling toasts and night toasts? A: yes sir; just the same Q: Everything of the same character as more recently? A: Yes sir; everything of the same character Q: Where did you first learn that Tom Fisher was a member? A: Donahue told me that night that he was the County Delegate Q: And did he tell you, too, that McKenna was a member? A: He told me he was a Body Master Q: Did you recognize each other as members? A: Yes sir Q: Did you eschange "goods" with them? A: Yes sir Q: Before the kiliing of Morgan Powell? page 14 A: Yes sir Q: Was there any difference in the organization before it as chareed and since it was chatered? A: There may be, but I do not see it Q: How; you never found out any difeence A: No sir Q: When you went out of Mr. Sweeney's tavern you went to Dr. Donahue's, did you? A: We went somewhere and Donahue said it was Dr. Donahue's; whether it was or not I can't say.I was never in the town efore that night. Q: You did not see the Doctor? A: I did not go in at all and nobody went in but Jack Donahue. Q: Which way did you go after you left Sweeney's? A: I can not say it was dark Q: Was it after you left Sweeney's that Fisher said Powell was in the ofice? A: It was after we left Sweeney's and Dr. Donahue's both. We left Sweeney's first and then went to Dr. Donahue's Q: Did you go back to Sweeney's after that? A: We did not Q: Where did you stay until this man came out who happened to be Morgan Powell? page 15 A: We stopped along the road. Fisher went over the road abd came back and said Powell was in the office; he went up to the window abd looked in. Q: Did anybody pass you while you were there waiting for Morgan Powell to come out of the office? A: Oh yes; there was more than nine or ten passed one by one. Q: Did anyone say anything to you? A: No sir Q: Were you in the group when these men passed you? A: Fisher and the two Donahue's were together, and McKenna and me were together. Q: How far were you and McKenna away from Fisher and the two Donahue's? A: I guess about as far as John Slattery is there now (about thirty feet) Q: Did you all drink? A: Nobody but McKenna and me Q: And Fisher and the two Donahue's had gone a distance from you? A: Yes Sir Q: Were you on the same side of the road? A: On the same side of the road. page 16 Q: That is you, McKenna, Fisher and the two Doanhue's A: We was on the same side of the road Q: Were you all on the same side of the road where Powell was shot? A: What was said? Q: Yes Sir; Why was Morgan Powell shot or to be shot? A: The reason of it was that he ws not doing fair and wouldn't give the men a fair show to work. Q: They did not say what man or what men? A: No Q: Where did you hear this? A: I heard it that night and after. I heard nothing about that he was going to be shot, until Fisher said he was in the "office now", and I asked who he was and Fisher said Morgan Powell. Q: You said that you heard nothing that he was to be shot until Fisher said that Morgan Powell was in the office now? page 17 A: Yes Sir; I asked who was it Q: What did you hear about why he was going to be shot then? A: I asked wht was the reason, and the reason they said was not acting fair with the men. Q: who said that? A: Fisher said that Q: At that time Fisher said something about shooting Morgan Powell, did he? A: Yes sir; when we were going up the road that night Q: What did he say when you were going up the road? A: He said he was after being shot, and he did not say what for as I am minding of Q: When did he say that he was to be shot because he did not give the men fair play? A: When we were going up the road after leaving Donahue's Q: After leaving Dr. Donahue's? A: Yes sir Q: Did you stay at the point of the road watching for Morgan Powell to come out of the store or office? A: The two Donahue's and Fisher stayed, and page 18 McKenna and me stayed a piece off from the road Q: They waited until he came out, did they? A: Until he came out, and when he was coming up Fisher walked away from the two Donahue's Q: How far did Morgan Powell get from the office until he was shot? A: I cannot say how many yards, but I know I seen people running out of the office when he called, it was only a short distance. Q: And did you all run away in the same direction when he was shot? A: We went up some other road; we turned up I think, I can't say now whether it was a railroad or a turnpike we were going up to some old breaker. Q: What time of the night was it? A: I think it must have be between nine and ten o'clock Q: Had you been drinking any that night? A: Yes sir, I ahd a few drinks of porter Q: And how about he rest? A: Well, the rest drank, I can't say how much they drank; I had a couple of drinks out of a bottle. McKenna had one on the road page 19 Q: It was a cold night? A: A cold breezing night Q: Do you know in what county Summit Hill is? A: It is in Carbon County, I know Q: Morgan Powell was killed, was he not? A: Yes sir; I was told he died the next day Q: What was Jack Donanhue, at that time, in the society? A: He was Body Master in Tuscarora Q: Were you a member of his Division? A: Yes Sir Q: What was Mat Donahue? A: He was member to Q: Was there anything said about Morgan Powell that you can remember in Sweeney's? A: I can't say whether there was or not I don't mind anymore. Q: You do not remember what it was? A: I do not remember whether there was or not Q: Where was the first mention made to you that you can now remember, after you got out, that Morgan Powell was to be shot? page 20 A: After we left Donahue's; I cannot say how much distance between Donahue's and the office, or what distance it is, for it was dark and it was the first night that ever I was in the place. Q: Can you now remember what was said upon that subject; what Fisher said, what McKenna said, what Mat Donahue said, or what you said? A: Fisher told Donahue - he was walking along between the two Donahues and I heard him say he was a bad man and he was not acting fair with the men; he was giving some a good show and others he wouldn't give them any work at all; he wouldn't give them brests. Q: Did he say anythign else? A: I don't mind whether he did or not? Q: Did McKenna say anything to you? A: I don't mind that he did. Q: Did you hear them say anything about Aleck Campbell? A: No; I did not hear Aleck Campbell's name mentioned? Q: Which one of the men shot Morgan Powell? page 21 A: It was Jack Q: Yellow Jack Donahue? A: Yes Sir Q: Did he tell you so? A: Yes Sir; showed m the pistol, and told me if I would speak a word about it he would kil me. Cross - Examination By Mr. James Ryon: Q: You say the two Donahues came to your house and wanted you to go to Summit Hill for a bottle of medicine for Donahue's daughter? A: Yes sir for his step-daughter Q: What time was it when they came to your house? A: I don't know what time it was. I was out working. I was laboring in a gang with Frank Farber; it was on a Saturday after three o'clock and they were there when I came to my house. Q: Were they there when you came home from work? A: Yes sir Q: Who were you working for? A: Frank Farber, he lives in Tamaqua page 22 a Frenchman, we met him down town when we were coming to; he was in Patty Maley's Q: What was he doing? A: He was a miner, and his brother and me were laboring for him in the gang way Q: Was Frank Farber a miner? A: Yes sir Q: And you were working for him? A: I was laboring for him; both me and his own brother. Q: Frank Farber and his brother had a brest? A: No, Frank Farber had a gang - way. He was a miner, abd his broher and me laboring for him. Q: At whose mine were you working? A: Simon Stein; Shoe-maker, and Fry of Tamaqua was running the mines, I think. Q: They were running this colliery at the time you were over to Summit Hill with the two Donahues? A: Yes sir Q: Where did you say the mine was that you were working in? A: The mine was up there above New Kirk a piece. You turned up at New Kirk and page 23 went up about a quarter of a mile or half a mile up the road. Q: Is there any other name for the place where it was? A: Some call it New Kirk and some called it Reynard's run. I don't know which is the right name. Q: Was it not back of Buckville there A: No Q: Was it the same colliery that Shoemaker and Fry had until lately? A: Yes sir, the same colliery they had until they give it up. Q: How long had you been to work for Shoemaker and Fry before that; how long had had they had the colliery prior to this? A: I can't say how long I know it was with rank Farber I went first to work in the gangway, and I went with him thattime. That was the first time I was in it. I can't say how long I was working in it. Q: Was it a year, or two years, or five years? A: I don't think it was two years, it must be about a year. It wasn't two. Q: What time did you leave your house to go to Carbon County? page 24 A: I think it was - what time did I leave the house to go where? Q: To Summit Hill? A: Between three and four o'clock, I think; about four o'clock. It might be about four, I cannot say exactly what time; it must be about four. Q: Was it daylight when you got-down to Maley's in Tamaqua A: Oh yes; it was daylight for a good while after we left Maley's Q: Did you tell Maley what you were going after? A: I didn't tell Maley. I don't know whether they told him or not; I didn't. Q: Did you tell Maley where you were going that night? A: No sir; I didn't. I didn't tell him where I was going. I didn't tell him nothing that time. Q: What time did you get to Sweeney's? A: That I can't say, but it was dark. Q: Was it much after dark? A: Yes sir, it was dark. Q: How long after dark? A: That I don't mind. I don't remember I didn't know what I route I was going. I was a stranger in the place; it was my page 25 first time there and I didn't know what road they were fetching . Q: Where did you say Sweeney's san was in the town? A: Well, I think it is in Storm Hill they call the place. I think it Storm Hill and to the best of my opinion they call it, where he lives. I am not sure though. Q: Is that in Summit Hill or a distance from it? A: I think it is in Summit Hill. Q: Did you go into any other place at Summit Hill except Sweeney's? A: I do not mind. I do not think I did. I don't think as we went into any other place. We might go into some place, but I am not certain whether we did or not. I can't say whether we went into any other house or not. Q: How long were you at Sweeney's before Fisher and McKenna came in? A: They were in right after us. Q: They came in right after you? A: Yes sir. Q: Did you meet them afterward, before that? A: No; I do not think we did. I doin't mind as we did. I know Fisher shook page 26 hands with Donahue and he made me them acquainted with him. Q: That is Sweeney did? A: Fisher did, in Sweeney's. Q: Sweeney introduced you to Fisher? A: Donahue did Q: And then he introduced you, you say to McKenna? A: Oh, I seen McKenna; I was introduced to McKenna before that. I seen him in Tamaqua. Q: Where were you introduced to McKenna, in Tamaqua? A: In Patty Maley's Q: When was that? A: I can't say how long before that; I can't say how long before that it was. Q: What were you doing at Patty Maley's, when you were introduced to McKenna? A: I went in to have my whiskey; I think Donahue was in there with me. Q: Which Donahue? A: John Donahue; Yellow Jack. Q: Then you went there to get a drink of whiskey did you? A: Yes sir; that is what I went after. Q: Did you find McKenna there or did he come in? page 27 A: I found him there at different times before that. Him and me met often in Maley's Q: Then you were not introduced to him at this time, when you and Donahue were in there, for the first time; the time you and Donahue were at Maley's when nyou met McKenna for the first; you had know him before that? A: Oh yes; I had known him before that. Q: How long before that had you known him? A: Well, I cannot say how long before that. I cannot say what day it was I met him, but it was since Patty Maley came to Tamaqua anyhow. Q: When you and John Donahue were there and you took your drink, did you leave or what did you do? A: I think John Donahue treated abd McKenna treated and I treated. Q: What did you do then? A: We went up the road, and I and Donahue went home. Q: You went up road? A: Up the street toward home. Q: You and Donahue left McKenna at Maley's? page 28 A: Yes sir. Q: And you went with Donahue how far? A: To the head of the town, to the head of Tamaqua, but it wasn't that night. It was before that night. Q: It was not the night you went over to Summit Hill? A: No Q: Nothing you said in the tavern was there, at Sweeney's, about Powell; his name was not mentioned? A: No; it was outside I heard it. I know Donahue and Fisher and Fisher were one side and they were talking, but I don't know what they were talking about. I did not hear what they were talking about. Q: That is after you came out? A: No. It was in the bar-room; they had a conversation before that. Q: Who had a conversation in thr bar-room? A: It was Donahue and Fisher. Q: You told us before, in your examination, that nothing was said there about Powell. A: I told you that now, I didn't know whether it was about Powell or not. I don't know what the two men was talking about; I wasn't listening to them, I told you. page 29 Q: Then you did not know what they were talking about? A: No; I don't know what they were talking about; I didn't hear them when they had the conversation. Q: You could not hear their conversation? A: No sir; I could not, nor did not Q: Then you heard nothing at all about Powell in Sweeney's? A: No; but it I think they were talking that Powell was a badman; that there was some men there he refused to give a brest, but I heard nothing about killing while I was there. Q: You heard that, you say, in Sweeney's? A: Yes sir; all I heard was that from Donahue and Fisher, when they were a way apart, say that he was a bad scoundrel; that he refused some man there to give them a brest, that he wasn't giving the men a fair show. Q: You heard Donahue or Fisher? A: I heard Donahue and Fisher? Q: Then you did not hear it for the first time on the street, as you swore before? A: I didn't hear it about the shooting of it; page 30 it was on the street I heard about the shooting of the man. I didn't hear them say in the bar-room that they would shoot him -- that he was going to be shot. Q: Where abouts was it on the street thatyou heard the talk about the shooting? A: I think, to the best of my opinion, it was halfways between Donahue's and the office or store. I could not tell you the exact spot. Q: Was it before you and McKenna stopped to take the drink, or after, that you heard them talking? A: It was before, I think it was before. Q: Were you all five together when this conversation occured? A: The other three was walking ahead of McKenna and me. We were walking right close to them. Q: You were walking right close to them you say? A: We were walking right close to them and they went ahead. They were in front. Q: What did you hear now? A: I heard Fisher telling Donahue that he ought to be shot, that he wasn't page 31 giving the men justice and that he had to be shot for it, and he told him that if he would miss his mark thathe would be shot himself, that he had a good revolver and caried his revolver in his pocket. Q: He ought to be shot because he was not what? A: Giving the men a fair show. Q: What was the balance of it he said, about having a good pistol; who said that? A: Fisher told Donahue that Powell carried a good pistol, and, if he would miss his shot, that he was gone himself. Q: That Powell carried a good pistol, and if he mised his shot he would begone himself? A: Yes sir Q: Is that all you heard about it? A: That is all I mind, and that is all I recollect now. There may be more but I don't mind right. Q: I guess you could recollect, could you not, if there was anything more said? A: Well, I don't recollect whether there was anymore said or not, when I heard there was going to be a man shot, I was troubled. page 32 Q: You had no pistol withyou, had you? A: No Sir; I hadn't, if I was told that I was going, and what I was going on, maybe I would have hd onewith me, but I didn't know where I was going and what we was going to do. Q: Then you did not know, when you started over, that you were on any criminal enterprise at all? A: I went there with Donahue at the time he told me he was going for medicine for his step-daughter to Dr. Donahue's. Q: They did not tell you they were going to kill Powell? A: no sir; they did not. Q: When you went to Sweeney's who did you find there? A: There was a crowd in. I told you I didn't know any of them, only Sweeney and Fisher and McKenna. Q: You say there was a crowd? A: There was Q: How many were there, twenty? A: I can't say; I don't think there was twenty in it. Q: Ten? A: I did not count them. There might be. I think there was more then ten; to the page 33 best of my opinion there was more then ten in it, Ithink. Q: More then ten? A: Yes sir Q: Were you intrroduced to any others there besides Fisher? A: That was all I recollect of Q: What time did you get to Sweeney's? A: I tell you I don't know what time it was, but it was dark. Q: You told us it was about half-past nine when you went out. A: When I went out? Q: When you went out to go to Donahue's? A: No sir; I did not; I told you we left my house about four o'clock. A: Did not you tell us it was about half past nine, or there abouts when got out to Dr. Donahue's? Q: No; but I told you, to the best of ky knowledege, it was betwen nince and ten that Powell was shot. I had no time with me and that was as I lumped it. Q: How long were you at Sweeney's now bwfore you started out to go to Donahue's? A: I can't say that. It might be two hours page 34 there, may be only a little over an hour, but ithink it was close on to two hours. Q: How long did it ntake you to go from there to Dr. Donahue's? A: I can't say, fo I did not know how far is Dr. Donahue's from the Sweeney's, nor I don't know how far is the store. I told you it was dark and after night, and I can not tell you what distance it was. Q: You can tell me somewhere near? A: Well, I can't. Q: Was it five minutes or ten minutes? A: I can't tell you. It didn't take so long to go to Donahue's. Q: How long was it after you left Sweeney's before Powell was sho; how long a time elapsed? A: I think it might be half- an hour. I think it might. It might be more it might be less. Q: Was Powell's office right in the town? A: I can't tell you, I can't say where te office was. Q: You can tell whether there were other houses around it page 35 A: To the best of my opinion, Ithink there was a store beside it, right alongside; I think there was. Q: Did you see lights in any other houses around it? A: I don't mind whether there was any house around it. Q: Was the store open or shut at the time; was it lighted up? A: I think the store was shut, but there was a light in the office. There was a light in one end of the office house anyhow; I don't know which end it was. There was one end of the building that the light was in Q: Did you see lights anywhere around it as if there were houses and people living there. A: I think I did Q: You think you saw lights in other houses around? A: I think I did. Q: Not very far away? A: I cannot say how near it was. Q: Then it was not bed-time when Powell was shot? A: No; it was not that, hardly. Q: It was between nine and ten o'clock? page 36 A: I think it was around that Q: Did you meet people on the street gooing to Dr. Donahue's that made you stop? A: There was not a step on the street that we didn't meet people; not a step but we met them continually. Q: WhenPowell was shot, was thre anybody else beside you five around there? A: Yes there was Q: How many? A: I can't say how man. They told me there was police coming. awe5weq32`c\ Q: Was there people around the steps or on the street? A: Not on the office side thee wasn't. Q: Was there any on the other side? A: Yes; there was on the ther side. Q: Quite a number? A: Yes sir; quite a number. Q: Of course, you did not know any of them? A: No, I did not. Q: Were they standing or walking on the other side? A: They was walking up the road and down the road. page 37 Q: Did you see anybody go out of the office while you were there? A: When the shot was fired I seen people coming out of the office, and running in the direction where Powell was shot. Q: Did you see people, before that, come out of the office? A: Yes, I did, and pass by where we were standing. Q: Do you know whether it was a bad night or not? A: I don't know Q: Where did those people that came out of the office before he was shot go? A: Where we was standing they passed right alongside. Q: You told us that Fisher and Donahue and youothers did not go very near the office? A: Fisher went up near the office and he came up back to where the two Donahue's was standing and I heard him say that Powell was in the office, that he seen him through the window. Q: How long after that was it before Powell was shot? -page 38 A: I cannot say how many minutes; it wasn't long? Q: Did Powell come out of the office? A: Yes sir; he was going home at the time. Q: Did he come out of the office? A: He come out where the light was; I can't say whether it was the office, or the store, but he said it was the office. Q: Was there an outside light burning in the street? A: I don't recollect whether there was or not. Q: You do not recollect whether they had a street-lamp there? A: No; I don't. Q: When he got out it was light outside the ffice, was it? A: Yes sir; I think there were, but I am not sure. Q: After he left the office door, which way did he go? A: He came toward where we were standing. Q: Were you standing near any houses? A: No; I think there were no houses near. We was standing near some cross pae 39 road, I think it was a railroad that was going up to some old breaker. Q: Did he come out on the same side, that the store was; did he go out of the office and then pass th store, or did he go away from the store? A: I tell you I don't know whether it was a store or an office he come out of, but it was wherever the light was. Q: You do not understand me; I want to know when he come out whether he turned to the right or left of the store? A: I don't know whether it was a store or not; I had never sn the building before. Q: And you do not know whether it was ab office or whether it was a store? A: No sir; I do not. Q: Did he go, after he come out of the office or store, did he go toward the direction that you came from when you came to Sweeney's? A: He came to the direction where we were standing. Q: Did he go in the direction that you came from when you came from Sweeney's? page 40 A: That I cannot say I don't know whether we came the straight road, or cross-roads, or what kind of a roads. Q: Well, you did not pass by the place where we came out of, I understand? A: No I did not Q: Nor the Donahue's did not, nor Fisher, nor McKenna? A: No. Fisher went up tolook at him. Q: You came from one direction to where he was and stopped there? A: Yes, sir; but I don't know which dorection it was. It was dark. I don't know the road. Q: You did not pass the office or the store? A: I don't think I did. Q: Then if he came out of the office or store and came to where you was, he must have come in the directions that you came from? A: He came to where I was standing; I cannot tell you whether it was a store or an office, or which side it was. Q: You said that Fisher was a County Delegate? A: I was told he was. page 41 Q: Fisher did not tell you so, did he? A: No Sir; it was Donahue told me that he was the County Delegate of Carbon County. Q: Where did he tell you that? A: That night where he made me acquainted with him. Q: In the bar-room? A: Yes sir; in the bar-room. Q: Did you know McKenna was the body master before that? A: Yes sir; I knowed it before that. Q: How long had you known it before that? A: I don't know it, only what the man told me himself when I met him in Patty Maley's. Q: Was that six months, or a week, or a year, before you went over there? A: I don't think it was a year. I can't say how manyh months. Q: Was it half a year? A: Well it might be. Q: It may have been half a year before you went over there? A: It might be. Q: You had never met Fisher before that, of course? A: I don't know; I had seen him I think. page 42 I don't think. I was talking to him. I wasn't in his company. Q: u say aftr this they came over to Tamaqua and met you and Donahue at Maley's? A: Yes sir. Q: What day of the week was this? A: I can't tell ou what day of the week it was, nor what day of the month. Q: Was it before or after Christmas? A: That I don't know, but I know there was a ball in Mrs. McHughes in Tamaqua that very night after they were at Maley's, I think it was the very night I think it was. Q: Did you attend the ball? A: Yes sir. Q: Did Fisher attend the ball? A: I seen him there. Q: And you saw McKenna there? A: Idid. Q: Did you see anybody else there from Summit Hill? A: I seen a brother of McKenna there, Ithink he was a brother called Frank McKenna, at the ball. Q: Did you see anybody else? A: Not a I mind. page 43 Q: Where was this, at widow McHughes? A: Yes sir. Q: Up Broad Street? A: Yes sir. Q: What time in the day was it that Donahue called you in to Maley's at the time you saw Fisher? A: It was sometime in the afternoon; I cannot say what hour. Q: Did Fisher tell you then that he had come over to attend the ball? A: No; he did not. He didn't say anything about the ball. Q: Did you talk about a ball there at the time? A: No. Q: What kind of ball was this at McHugh's, a Molly Maguire ball? A: No sir; it was not. Q: It was not a Molly Maguire ball? A: No; there might be some of them in it, but it was not a Molly Maguire ball. Q: Were there tickets sold for it? A: I think they were; I am not sure though. I know I had no ticket. I paid my money when I went in. Q: Did you have any knowledge aout tickets page 44 being sold; were they offered before that for any purpose? A: For that ball, was it? Q: Yes sir? A: I heard that tickets were sold, but I didn't see none of them. Q: You say that Fisher said he had hoped to get one hundred dollars but he could only get thirty? A: Yes sir; thatis what he said. Q: But he did not say what the money was for? A: No Sir; only said for his trouble. Q: Did you get any of the money? A: Not a cent. Q: Did you see Donahue give any of the money to anybody? A: I seen him giving some of it to Matty but I don't know how much Q: Did you ask him for any? A: I did not. Q: You did not understand, then, that it was for any trouble that you had been to? A: Sir? Q: You did not know then that you were entitled to any of it? page 45 A: I did not. Matty told me that Donahue give him ten dollars for that night he was over; that he gave him ten for it. A: Not a cent. Q: You are sure now you did not get ten dollars? A: I am sure of it. Q: Who was it you heard say that they should give some of it to you? A: Fisher. Q: What was the language he used? A: He said thathe had a right to give Mulhearn a few dollars of that money. Q: And you heard that? A: Yes sir. Q: Was it said loud enough for Maley to hear it? A: Well, I guess it was. It was said loud enough for him to hear it. Q: Was there anybody else in the saloon at that time? A: There was, but I didn't know any body else who was there bt Maley. Q: You told us there was several strangers in the room? page 46 A: Yes, there was, and I tell you that now but I did not them. Q: How many strangers were there? A: Five or six. Q: Besides the parties you have named? A: Yes, sir. Q: And they all saw it? A: Yes sir; they did. Q: And heard what was said? A: I can't say what anybody heard. Q: But it was said loud enough for anybody in the room to hear? A: It was Q: If anybody was there, they could hear it? A: They could have heard it. Q: Which way did you go when you went from Sweeney's to fo to the office; toward Mauch Chunk or toward Tamaqua? A: I told you I don't know what road we was taking. Q: Was the store made of stone, or what was it made of? A: I cannot say what the road was made of or where it went to. Q: Was thr store built of stone or wood? A: I tell you I don't know. Q: There was a store and there was an office right beside it? page 47 A: Yes sir; I believe so. I tell you I don't know whether it was a store and an office, or two stores or what it was. Q: There were two buildings right opposite each other where this killing took place? A: I don't say whether it was tw buildings, or whether it was one building with a store in one end and an office at the other. I wasn't beside it but the once. Q: Did it have a long front on the street whee you were standing? A: Oh not at all. I wasn't in front of it at all. Q: Were you standing by the side of it, or how. A: Iwas standing on the same side that the building was, a distance from it. I did not go near where the building was. Q: Was it longest, was it fronted on the street, or was it longer from the street back into the lot? A: It was not far from the street anyhow, the way it looked by the light. Q: How far from the street? A: I could not say how many yards. Q: Was this store or building, or whatever page 48 it as, wider on the street than it extended back into the lot; did it occupy more frontage on the street than it did backof depth on the lot back away from the street? A: I can't say. I tell you I did not go near where the building was at all. Q: How near to the corner of the uilding next to you was it that Powell came out of the place where he came out of? A: That is how near was it from where he came out to where I was standing? Q: No; how near was the corner of the building whe he came out of the next to you andto the building where he was in? A: By the way it looked I don't know whether it was him that came out at all. Q: You learned afterward that it was? A: I was standing by the store abd there was a couple of men came out of the office, and Donahue walked over ndhe found it wasn't the rigt man, and he waled back again. Q: You stod on the street and Powell came out of the corner of the building; how far from that corner of the building page 49 that he came out was it away from you to where ou stayed on the street? A: It looked to me as if eame out of the far end of the building. That is the way it looked to me, to the best of my knowledge. Q: How many feet from where you were standing? A: I can't say. John J. Slatery, sworn and examined by Mr Hughes: Q: State whether you know John Donahue? A: I do. Q: He was the Body Master of Tuscarora? A: Yes sir. Q: State whether you ever heard him say anything in regard tot he murder of Morgan Powell. A: I did Q: State what it was. A: He told me that he fired the shot that killed him. Q: Did you ask him, or did you hear him say who was along at the time? A: I heard it previous to that, from another source. Q: Did you speak of it to Donahue? A: no sir; I didn't speak to him about it; I don't know how it hapened to come out. Q: State where this was and when it was. page 50 A: It was Tuscarora. Q: When? A: I think it was while the Kelley and Doyle trial was going on. Q; While thatwas in progress? A: I had heard it before that, but I think Donahue told me there. Q: How did you hear it before that? A: I heard it from a man by the name of John Malloy. By Judge lpeen: Q: Was it the John Malloy who was here as a witness on ths stand? A: Yes sir. ( No Cross Examination) Decision of the court reserved and prisoners remanded. R.A. West Stenograper