TX BIOS:  H. D. Stine
   Selected and converted.American Memory, Library of Congress.
   
   Washington, 1994.
   
   Preceding element provides place and date of transcription only.
   
   This transcription intended to be 99.95% accurate.
   
   For more information about this text and this American Memory
   collection, refer to accompanying matter.
   
   U.S. Work Projects Administration, Federal Writers' Project (Folklore
   Project, Life Histories, 1936-39); Manuscript Division, Library of
   Congress.Copyright status not determined.
   
   00011
   
   Wm. V. Ervin, PW; [Wichita?] Falls, Texas
   
   Words 1,700
   
   Page 1
   
   AUG 29 1938
   
   INTERVIEW with H. D. Stine, Henrietta, Texas; pioneer resident of the
   Wichita Falls country.
   
   "I came to the Wichita Falls country in 1875. There was not any town
   of Wichita Falls here, then but the falls in the Wichita River was
   still here, but they are not any longer.
   
   "We were in the cattle business, and later in the sheep business, but
   the price of sheep got so low you couldn't get over twenty-five cents
   a head for them, which [wouldn't?] pay the freight. We gave our sheep
   to the sheepherder to get him to take them away, and he went on west
   with them and ran into loco weed with them and lostmost of them, and
   so he went out of the sheep business, too. We went to raising cattle
   again, and since then we have raised horses and farmed.
   
   "I know Cal and Ike Suggs. There were eleven of the Suggses, but Cal
   and Ike were the only ones of them who could make a living, and they
   made fortunes out of the cattle business. Ike was not Ike Suggs' real
   name, which was J. D. He got the name of Ike when he was a boy because
   he liked to hear a lawyer by the name of [Icus?] make speeches so they
   called J. D. Suggs Ike for Icus. Ike said he knew it wasn't his real
   name, but he didn't know his real name was, all he knew was his
   initials.
   
   "It was like that then about names. I knew lots of men just by the
   brand they used, or represented, but I didn't know their real names.
   If anybody had asked me if I knew Flying A, I'd say I did; but if they
   asked me by his real name if I knew him, I wouldn't have known who it
   was. There was a man came into the country form Louisiana, and we all
   called him Louisiana, and that was all the name we knew.
   
     NOTE: C. 12 - [????]
     
   00022When he went to get married he asked for the license in the name
   of W. B. Frey, and they were not sure he was the right man.' I've had
   men work for me for several years at a time that I never knew their
   real names. They'd have nicknames, and we'd all call them by them. I
   had a man worked for me for three or years and all the name I knew him
   by was Foss. He went off and I didn't see any more of him for several
   years. Then one [night?] somebody rode up to the house one night and
   hollered and called me by name, and asked if he could stay all night.
   I said, "Is that old Foss?" He laughed, and said, "Yes, but I haven't
   been called that for five years. My name is Gus Ford." That was the
   first time I ever knew his real name. I had another feller worked for
   me that we always called [Martha?]. I don't know where he got the
   name, but that was all the name I knew him by until one day he asked
   me to call for his mail, and gave me the name of Mat Campbell. There
   was a letter for him at the postoffice when I called for his mail, but
   it had been carried around so much that it had worn open. I thought,
   well, I would be accused of opening it and reading it, anyway, so I
   though I might as well read it. It was from his mother, and she told
   him that officers were after him, and for him to take another name and
   light out for unknown parts. I gave him the letter, but I didn't tell
   him I had read it. Pretty soon he left, which I knew he would, and the
   boys was all wondering why Martha had left so sudden, but I didn't let
   on like I knew. About five years later Martha showed up and wanted to
   work for me again. I put him to work on Monday, but by Saturday I
   hadn't had a chance to see him by himself, so Saturday evening I told
   him I wanted him to go with me and fix some fence. When we got away
   from the rest of the bunch I says, "Martha, I read that letter you got
   when you was here before, and after you left some Federal officers
   00033come here looking for you. I thought I'd tell you, if you didn't
   want to stay around here in case the [officers?] came again. I never
   told anybody what was in the letter." He says, "That's all right. I
   went back home and stood trial for that and come clear. It was a case
   of bootlegging." The next morning, though, when we got up Martha was
   gone-didn't even ask for his week's pay and we never saw him again. I
   reckon he was lying about standing trial and coming clear.
   
   "Cal and Ike Suggs were good and bad, they were bad men to monkey
   with. Together, they killed nine men. They would waylay a man if they
   got it in for him. Cal said, "If a man's goin' to get killed anyway,
   why let him know about it beforehand?" Their niece married a man, and
   him and another man got to stealing the Suggses beef, and Ike come
   looking for them. He come to where the husband of his niece worked,
   but the man said he wouldn't be back till next year. Suggs said, "Well
   I ain't goin' to wait a year to stop him carrying' off my beef." He
   killed the feller in a few days, and the other one skipped out.
   
   "Cal Suggs like to have killed Burk Burnett, Powder-burned him. They
   had gone to Oklahoma to see about leasing Indian lands, and they
   happened to meet in the lobby of a hotel. Cal said to Burk, "I
   understand you got your lease money back from Washington." Burk was a
   kind of a quick-tempered, rough-talking feller, and he says, "That's a
   lie, you [md;]! "Cal jerked out his gun and shot at Burk once, but he
   missed him--the powder burned Burk's cheek. Others there in the lobby
   took charge of them and quieted them down. Cal said later he had tried
   to shoot Burk between the eyes. They were kept apart always after
   that. Burk and his friends and family were afraid the Suggses would
   waylay him, 00044and I reckon they would have. When ever Burk had to
   go where he might run into the Suggses he took W. T. Waggoner or
   [Silverstein?] along, or both of them. He figured that the Suggses,
   who didn't have a [grudge?] against Waggoner and Silverstein, wouldn't
   start a shooting with two other [prominent?] cattlemen along. One time
   Burk was making a trip where he thought he might meet the Suggses, and
   he had [Waggoner?] and Silverstein along. He had told Waggoner why he
   wanted them along, but him and [Waggoner?] hadn't told Silverstein why
   it was. They met the Suggses all right, on the road. They figured the
   Suggses were waiting to waylay Burk till they saw who his company was.
   They come along in their buggy. As they went by Silverstein hollered
   at them and waved, and was about to pull up and stop, but Waggoner and
   Burk kept the horses going. When they got by, Silverstein sya, 'Why, I
   thought we'd stop and talk awhile with Cal and Ike.' Waggoner says,
   "Don't you know why me and you are along? Don't you know there might
   have been a shooting if we'd stopped? Those fellers are out to get
   Burk."
   
   "When I came out here there were not any [fences?]. It was all open,
   range. Some people wanted to fence in a little land before barb wire
   was made, so they tried hedges, but it didn't do very well for fence.
   One feller, though, he planted a bois d'arc hedge to fence in three or
   four sections, and it made a good fence, but it was a lot of work,
   [When?] the limbs would grow out he would turn down and sort of lace
   them back and forth between the [trees?] and that way he had a pretty
   solid fence which would hold cattle.
   
   "When people started using wire fencing there was different kinds of
   barb wire. If you had to use more than all of one kind a store
   00055had, you had to take a different kind, and so you were liable to
   have several different kinds of wire. I remember a couple of those
   kinds which would be funny-looking now. One was just flat metal with a
   barb cut in it. It would stop cattle all right when they learned it
   would hurt them. Another kind of wire had a barb that looked like a
   spur rowel.
   
   "Fence-cutting started with the fencing because the cowboys figured
   that if a man could fence in his range, he wouldn't need more than a
   man or two to handle his cattle, and so most of them would be without
   work. But when they discovered that the cowmen needed about as many
   men to ride the fences and keep them up and to handle the cattle, they
   quit cutting the fences. One feller knew got his fence out. It was cut
   one each side of each post. Looked like some feller had something that
   he could cut with as he rode along on a horse. The man that owned the
   fence he just went around and wired it back again. They didn't bother
   me because I didn't have much fenced in.
   
   "There were some shootings and killings over the fence-cutting before
   it was over with. There were also some disputes and killings over land
   lines. There were three brothers had some land joining a ranch, and
   they had a [dispute?] with the owner of the ranch about where the land
   line was. They went out to where two of his hands were building fence.
   The three brothers were in their wagon and each one had a shotgun
   laying down in the wagon. It looked like they were prepared for
   trouble. One of them, when they got to where the fence was being
   built, jumped out of the wagon and began pulling up apost. One of the
   cowman's hand whowas building the fence shot the man with a
   [Winchester?] and killed him. Them hekkilled the other two brothers
   before they got into action with their shotguns. 00066They fell out of
   the wagon, and the team got scared and ranto the home, where the men's
   mother and sister were. The mother and sister got in the wagon and
   drove over to where the men were shot. When they got there two of the
   men were dead, and the other said, "Turn me over. I'm shot in the
   back." Then he died. It was said the mother lost her mind. Well, it
   was enough to cause her to lose her mind to find her three sons there
   shot to death. The feller that did it was a pretty tough hombre. But
   he didn't deny any of it in his trial. [He?] came clear. One of
   thethree brothers had been a school teacher and [I?] had gone to
   school with him.
   
   "The Indians had quit raiding down in this part of the country when I
   came out here. But some cattle stealing went on. The men athat were
   stealing cattle then were white men."

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